What would happen in our world if there were no rules? What if there were no consequences for our evil? What would happen to our world if there were no laws, no international treatys, no geneva conventions, no boundry lines? What if there were no courts to insure that justice was to be upheld for the offended and against the offender? Imagine a world with no police, no law and order, no electric chairs or lethal injections.
What would people do given the ability to "get away" with it? What would you do? What is that secret desire, urge, notion or rage that you have kept down over countless days? What harnessed rage would vent into full scale slaughter? What lustful eyes would find fulfillment in remorseless rape? What greedy hands would grope the thing longed for? How many vulgar, harsh and sensual words would fill the void of verbal nicetys we use in common everyday speech?
Where does your heart wonder to given the chance? Where would your desire roam if freed from the oppressive expectations of civility and order? Where would you be? What would you do? What do you wish you could get away with? When was the last time you were faced with the very real desire of doing something you knew/felt to be inherently wrong and evil? How many days or hours or seconds have passed since that last thought pressed itself upon your desires?
I've asked this question again and again of the young in schools both middle and high school...and the answer is always the same, "If that happened then there would be no one left," or,"People would be killing and raping and stealing and doing everything they're not supposed to do." I then narrow the point and question them, "Are you saying that you yourself would be doing such things too?" The result is a wide-eyed unexpected realization of their own inward tendencies.
Two very important observations are clear from such pondering. First and most obvious, we do not live in such a lawless world. Thus, the question is only partially hypothetical. We live in a land of rules, laws, police, courts and justice. Even if we are critical or skeptical of such forms of law and government, we certainly breathe a sigh of relief knowing that there exists some sort of social barrier intended to seperate and protects us from the manifold evil desires pulsing in human hearts. This last thought brings us to the second more subtle yet more disturbing observation, evil desires dwell within us all.
We have to face the fact that we live in a land of laws, police, courts, prisons, locked doors, burglar alarms and lethal injections ultimately because we all are quite aware of something germane to humanity, namely, a desire to commit evil and get away with it. We are leary not only of others but of ourselves as well.
Signs in a bank which say, "Please stand in line and wait for the next available teller" exist precisely because deep down inside we do not really want to wait in line and certainly should not have to wait for the next available. The sign indicates something else as well, we affirm that there is a way things should go. That is, there is a way of living with others and individually which demands something above and beyond whatever our hearts desires might be.
My point in discussing all of this is to point out the problem of evil in our hearts and the problem of good in our hearts. When I say the problem of good, I mean that twist of conscience, shame or holy outrage we feel when we see evil committed against others, commit the evil ourselves or have it committed against ourselves. These are universal responses. There is not a single culture, no matter how divergent which does not have some sort of social moral code which deals with and directs human behavior. The problem of evil in our hearts arises from the sense we have in ourselves that we would like to break these rules or codes of behavior given the right combination of circumstances.
There is only one faith in the world which deals with this heart issue and it is Christianity. Traditional Judaism misses the point of the Law and misses the clear indication that the reason there is Law is because we are by heart lawbreakers, inventing ways to do evil, thus the inherent "need" for a Law. Islam enforces a code of worship and behavior based on reward and punishment, missing too the point and neglecting to ask the question, "Why do I need this leverage to induce my behavior?" Many of the Eastern religions simply reply to such questions nonsensically by saying that distinctions between good and evil are illusory, that they are somehow beyond good and evil, while never facing the fact of the question itself. That is, the fact that there is such a question itself begs to be answered and faced because we sense deep down a wrongness over evil and a rightness over good. Silly koans or a pantheistic monism will not dissolve the crisis we all sense within ourselves and view in others. We have some idea of what is good but love inwardly that which is evil. We are torn and weighted down within by such things. The undertow of our own being pulls us toward the darkness yet in many there is a longing to have their desires changed so as to love what is right and holy. And it is like an old longing to return to something we remember as better. Many have a the sense that there must have been a time when things were not as twisted out of shape as they are now..
Only Christianity states emphatically that mankind is dead in sin and tells why and what has been done about it. Christianity faces the problem squarely and tells us that many years ago when God created our first parents, that given the chance to love Him who is Holy and do the right, our first parents chose instead not to bow the head but rather to raise themselves against a Sovereign Creator. His response was as if to say, "If you consider my Love slavery then you will have this freedom from Me. I will give you over to your desire and you will be free to sin...freed from God yet slaves to sin...wherein you will never ever be fully able to love what is Holy and Good, namely, Me."
Thus we have lived a long time in this ruined city which was first built to house the Holy but was devastated by the fire of sin and left blackened and brokened...beyond human repair. Or perhaps, stated differently, we are only broken pieces of a multicolored stained glass first intended to fit within the framework of God's house, to cast His Holy light through us, shining with brilliant intensity and diversity of color in the Glory of His Son. This is the way it was supposed to be. Yet now are we fragmented and broken sitting unfulfilled longing to cast a more beautiful and pleasurable light. We settle for shades and glimpses of what was that first Light.
The sadness, anger and angst that follows such a loss has echoed throughout humanity and is heard in the longing for something better, something right, something more pure, something more holy, something more real, something redemptive and new...yet never satisfied, a hungering which leads men to numbness and dumbness of soul. Numbing ourselves with mega buffets, illicit, immoral and unnatural sex, psychotropic drugs and endless forms of entertainment, endless games, endless tv shows, endless songs and dances. We try to convince ourselves daily that our technological advances will one day herald a new Utopia somehow overcoming our unnatural bent...yet beholding that the same nuclear technology which gives energy to run our refrigerators and circulate our aircondition also gives the ingredients for weapons of mass destruction. We dumb ourselves by refusing to face the hard reality of our own souls...that apart from God in Christ, we are dead and empty, that we are miserable wanderers longing for Home.
The hope, through Christ, is that in Him we are made a new creation...new bodies, new minds, new eyes to see a new City indwelt by God Himself...enabling us to enjoy Him and love Him and obey Him...replacing the slavish fear of His Holiness with the enjoyment of a son or daughter who revels in the strength, beauty and greatness of their very own Daddy. Christ our Brother, Who died that we might be born again, makes us sons and daughters of His Father...welcomes us, loves us, satisfies us with Himself. Henceforth, we are no longer numb but rather deeply experiencing as we ought; aquiring new "taste buds" which cause us to savor and hunger for a thousand different joys in Christ. We are no longer dumb but rather faceoff and engage with a sort of critical realism ourselves and the world surrounding us.
This is our only Hope.
(I am indebted to Dr. Jim Cofield for the idea of stained glass as an analogy to our falleness)
*note: these thoughts came quickly today. As stated in the previous post my intention is to be quiet and think and read and pray...and wait in silence for the Lord. Today was fruitful and I felt obliged to share this.
Friday, July 28, 2006
Thursday, July 27, 2006
Sunday, July 16, 2006
Sermon Jams, Or, Preaching With A Back Beat
...you never know exactly where you will end up. Here is a Chat dialogue i had on a website that deals in instrumental beats. I found the site as a result of taking a link from somewhere (I don't remember where I found the link) to a site called relevantrevolution.com.
Now, this is a site which features really strong rap beats with haunting pianos, strings and synth sounds underneath even better preaching...like John Piper and Ravi Zacharias and many others.
The most ironic thing about all of my interest is that one day I opened a web site that had the most beautiful piano loop I'd ever heard. Prior to opening that site with the piano loop I had started a sermon by John Piper from another web site biblicalpreaching.info. Well the two together was amazing. I mean it felt very right. There were times when the music seemed to follow the intensity of the preaching and seemed that the tempo of Piper's preaching matched the music. It was a very moving effect.
So, when I found this link I couldn't believe that people had even thought to put music and preaching together intentionally. Mine experience was very unintentional at least from my point of view.
Well, I go to the web site and they have a chat screen you can interact with while listening to the music. One of the chatters was a person who goes by the name BlackFaith. I thought, "Hmmm, maybe there is something religious to this...Here is the result of my inquiry:
BlackFaith : anyone here?
KeltyBroadstone : blackfaith?
KeltyBroadstone : Is that a religious thing?
BlackFaith : no
KeltyBroadstone : mean anything?
BlackFaith : Black Faith is the name of one of my beats and it sounded good with productions at the end so i was like hey why not
BlackFaith : wut about you? you make music?
KeltyBroadstone : no, i preach...so maybe in a different way
BlackFaith : oh i see
KeltyBroadstone : there is a thing called sermonjams, messages/spokenWORD put to beats...it's a trip...relevantrevol ution.com...
BlackFaith : im not into gospel music
KeltyBroadstone : check it out...especially J.Piper on suffer...dude it aint gospel...i aint into no gospel...this is the beats from places like this...seriously check it out...you aint nvr hrd this b4
BlackFaith : ok
KeltyBroadstone : they got m.king jr with a beat underneath "i got a dream..."
BlackFaith : its interesting
KeltyBroadstone : are you listening now?
BlackFaith : yeah
BlackFaith : im listening to the one called king
BlackFaith : its wierd cuz you got these gangster a** beats and then you have preaching on top of it
KeltyBroadstone : yeah, i love it man...
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : you got to be feeling that!
KeltyBroadstone : go to vol.1 and listen to the Ravi on Truth...that'll blow your mind
BlackFaith : its not on my favorites list...but its interesting...
BlackFaith : idk...i think its funny
KeltyBroadstone : what's funny about it?
BlackFaith : idk its just so wierd to me that its funny
KeltyBroadstone : does it feel wrong to have beats like that with preaching?
BlackFaith : idk kinda...you should have like...RnB ish music...light beats...i mean these are gangta a** beats and u got preaching on top of it...usually they dont mix
BlackFaith : although part of the funny thing is is that i know all of the beats by shadowville
KeltyBroadstone : there is a deep serious inthe gangsta sound...like you better listen to me...and the preaching on top of this beat is saying the same thing
BlackFaith : idk i still think its wierd
BlackFaith : but diff people have diff tastes
Enzo : yeah i just read all of that
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : never heard of it, but it doesn't sound appealing to me
KeltyBroadstone : that's why i like it...that haunting dark sound is God knocking at your door saying turn from sin, wake up, God is real and there will be a real judgment...so maybe it'll get inside your head and start rattling around
Enzo : but
Enzo : with a message that serious
Enzo : it shouldn't require music behind it to keep the the person listening
Enzo : i dunno, just sounds strange to me
BlackFaith : true
Enzo : if people really believe in their religion, then it shouldn't require "antics" to keep it interesting
KeltyBroadstone : God gave us gifts and talents...why not use it with his message?
BlackFaith : wut would really catch someones attention...idk if it would be in a good way or bad...would be if you had a preacher pull a lil jon
Enzo : i just don't think putting someone's sermon over a beat does anything
KeltyBroadstone : MC hammer tried that and came off real bad
Enzo : if a preacher is a good speaker, he knows how to keep the audiences attention
Enzo : he knows how to keep the listener interested, and makes the listener want to stay there to find out more
KeltyBroadstone : the preachers are not having this done...this is independent of them
Enzo : and he can do all of that w/out any music whatsoever
Enzo : i know
Enzo : because they don't need it
Enzo : i don't know, it just sounds weird to me
BlackFaith : i agree with Enzo
Enzo : i just don't understand mixing "gangster" beats with a sermon
Enzo : it's kinda like christian heavy metal
Enzo : it just doesn't make sense
KeltyBroadstone : I hear you on this...I like the preachers with and without the music...I think if the music takes away...the music has to fit...otherwise it don't mk sense
BlackFaith : lol i think they have that somewhere on soundclick
Enzo : just sounds like somebody is real bored when they start putting sermons on beats
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : and i'm not hating on religion
KeltyBroadstone : are you guys responding as christians concerned with the purity of the gospel message...or does this just sound like christians trying to be hard
Enzo : no
Enzo : it just sounds like a waste of time
Enzo : and just strange, to mix that w/ a beat
BlackFaith : especially that type of beat
Enzo : yeah
Enzo : maybe a slow r&b song or just some nice piano
KeltyBroadstone : that might just be your connotation...gangst a and jesus? sounds strange...I don't usually listen to any gangsta rap but the music "felt" serious and fit the seriuosness of the message
BlackFaith : wut does connotation mean?
Enzo : connotation
Enzo : is like
KeltyBroadstone : funny you say that b/c a lot of thse beats have piano
Enzo : the way you view it
KeltyBroadstone : connotation means certain words bring out certains feelings or as enzo said, ways of seeng things
BlackFaith : i think he meant just plain piano
KeltyBroadstone : ok, well now you are just expressing your preference...that's cool...my concern ultimately is the message...if you don't like the music withit then that's cool
BlackFaith : its not that we dont like the music...we just dont think they mix very well
KeltyBroadstone : I'm probably able to enjoy the beats and the message b/c i don't have enough experience/knowledge of the gangsta background to the beats...so i get to hear the music w/out tripping over the 'connotation" of gangsta and God which is right in the sense of most gangsta is sex/drugs/violence all of which God will judge...so I think maybe i hear you on this
Enzo : yeah i just don't see it mixing well
KeltyBroadstone : my wife got mad at me today b/c i was grooving with the music with the preacing on top and she said i shouldn't be groovin like that to a sermon that maybe it was disrespectful to the preacher and to God...what do you think?
BlackFaith : i dont think preachings are groove-to-able
KeltyBroadstone : I think there are lot of Christians who really love Jesus and just want to be able to express it musically without losing the truth and demand of the Gospel
BlackFaith : i think every group of people have their ways of expressing their love to Jesus but when they mix it just doesnt workout so well
KeltyBroadstone : i think that is sad to say that
BlackFaith : why is that?
Enzo : i'm done w/ this topic
Enzo : this is just pointless
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : God reigns over all the people of all the earth...why should we be so biased to our own culture
Enzo : everyone has their own opinion
Enzo : all i was trying to say
Enzo : was that i find it strange that people mix sermons and rap beats
Enzo : that's all
Enzo : and i think most people would agree, because that's not exactly somethin you hear everyday
BlackFaith : i agree with enzo again lol
KeltyBroadstone : ok, i heard that...not a pointless topic...especially since the message matters so much...God/humanity/ sin/cross/grace/judg ement
KeltyBroadstone : but, yeah, i'm sure it sounds strange to some
BlackFaith : most
KeltyBroadstone : ok, most...either way you guys have to deal with the message...you exist..have a sense of sin in your own hearts...and need for forgiveness...and purpose and hope inlife...so, forget the music, God is still speaking
BlackFaith : ok well ill bbl i gotta go call my gf
KeltyBroadstone : this is an easy conversation until you start talking Jesus and sin and the need for repentance and salvation...i care most about that...thanks for the conversation I got to go too...grace and peace to you both...KELLY BRIDENSTINE
So, that was it. I am not completely happy with all of my responses and questions...but that is real time. Some of the dialogue might seem a bit jumbled but we were all feeding into the same thing at the same time.
Several things stick out. First, they did not like Jesus or preaching mixed with gangsta beats. That just felt wrong and did not make sense. Second, they did not want to talk about the message but rather that the Message has no place on their instrumental beat turf and I would challenge that. Third, it seemed like a genuine conversation. Fourth, they did not have patience or interest in getting to the message of the Gospel.
I landed pretty hard in the last line...no one responded after I made that comment. I checked back awhle ago and found that BlackFaith was still on line and had left a few words to another guy, but I left him alone.
Well, pray for these two guys. My sense is that the do not know Jesus as Lord. Perhaps they'll listen to a few more sermons witthe beats underneath and the Lord might be pleased to rescue them.
OR, maybe they'll hear a sermon with no music and God will open their eyes. I had actually thought of burning some of the sermonjams to disc for a few of my coworkers and get their response and hope the Gospel would get to them. My dialogue tonight makes me think otherwise or at least a bit more cautiously.
This is interesting and distressing as I consider and have considered very recently what is involved in being "relevant." I mean, my goodness, the website that has the beats is called "Relevant Revolution." And then, perhaps most ironically, the website has a resource section which promotes mainly John Piper material. Ironic to that is the upcoming DG conference (i want to go if someone will pay my way...but i'm not begging) in which the topic will have to do with Above All Earthly Powers: The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World.
Writing in his invitation to the conference Piper describes this years theme as coming from David Wells book, Above All Earthly Powers. He expresses some of his concern and writes,
"The burden of Wells’ book is first to understand the postmodern world, and then to confront that world with the never-changing Christ. His thesis is that the West today is not simply a product of Enlightenment ideology, with its rejection of authority and reliance on reason without revelation, but is also the product of a process of consumeristic, technological, media-driven modernization that created an experience of reality which affirms and reinforces that ideology.
One effect of this modernization has been to give rise to the centrality of the psychologically oriented self in the place of a morally oriented human nature. The postmodern, all-consuming "self"—with its self-made spirituality—is subject to no outside authority. All reality has contracted into this self. It is radically individualized and privatized and insistently therapeutic. It does not feel at home in the doctrines and traditions of religion. It is on an endless quest for the enhancement of its experience measured by itself alone. "All of this has produced soil throughout society that positively invites the new spirituality. It seems normal and natural. That is why it is as difficult for the church to contest today as was Gnosticism in the early centuries" (p. 138)."
Now, I tend towards being critical and worried by the emergent church trends and the silliness of a lot of mimicing the culture. I blasted recently on the Provocations and Pantings website about this. And I think I found my criticism validated in both BlackFaith and Enzo's comments...especially Enzo's comment of the absurdity of Christian Metal...and I feel that way too...but, then I wonder about my enjoyment and, can i say it, edification with some of these sermon/songs.
Interestingly enough though, I still really enjoy hearing Ravi and Piper in this way. Does it translate to the culture and thus share the gospel? Well, in one sense it is absolutely orthodox. I can think of no other Pastor/Preacher/Speaker than Ravi and Piper in this regard. Mainly because they are so precise and devastatingly clear in engaging the culture and sharing powerfully the message of Jesus Christ. There are other speakers on this sermonjams that I am not that crazy about especially Tony Evans "Life" over the beat...he talks about Frankenstein with a beat that is a bit laughable.
This is from the founder of SermonJams, John Mahshie,
"John Mahshie is the founder of Relevant Revolution and Sermon Jams. He began Sermon Jams and Relevant Revolution with the goal of promoting a reverence and passion for the supremacy of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. He has a passion for the current generation and believes that today is a good day to start a revolution for Christ.
We have many ideas on how these sites can be used to glorify the Lord and believe they have tremendous potential to spread gospel seeds. Sermon Jams is a Sermon/Hip-hop hybrid designed to create a medium that is biblical, tactful and relevant to our current culture. We do not take a particular position on non-essential peripheral issues such as the apostolic gifts, eschatology or adult baptism. Our focus is on the fundamental truths of the Christian faith and the Word of God. This ministry emphasizes unity on the essentials, liberty on the non-essentials and charity in everything. We believe strongly on the idea that unity does not equal uniformity because there is diversity in the Kingdom of Christ."
Anyway, I thank the Lord for the conversation tonight.
Grace and Peace,
Kelly
Now, this is a site which features really strong rap beats with haunting pianos, strings and synth sounds underneath even better preaching...like John Piper and Ravi Zacharias and many others.
The most ironic thing about all of my interest is that one day I opened a web site that had the most beautiful piano loop I'd ever heard. Prior to opening that site with the piano loop I had started a sermon by John Piper from another web site biblicalpreaching.info. Well the two together was amazing. I mean it felt very right. There were times when the music seemed to follow the intensity of the preaching and seemed that the tempo of Piper's preaching matched the music. It was a very moving effect.
So, when I found this link I couldn't believe that people had even thought to put music and preaching together intentionally. Mine experience was very unintentional at least from my point of view.
Well, I go to the web site and they have a chat screen you can interact with while listening to the music. One of the chatters was a person who goes by the name BlackFaith. I thought, "Hmmm, maybe there is something religious to this...Here is the result of my inquiry:
BlackFaith : anyone here?
KeltyBroadstone : blackfaith?
KeltyBroadstone : Is that a religious thing?
BlackFaith : no
KeltyBroadstone : mean anything?
BlackFaith : Black Faith is the name of one of my beats and it sounded good with productions at the end so i was like hey why not
BlackFaith : wut about you? you make music?
KeltyBroadstone : no, i preach...so maybe in a different way
BlackFaith : oh i see
KeltyBroadstone : there is a thing called sermonjams, messages/spokenWORD put to beats...it's a trip...relevantrevol ution.com...
BlackFaith : im not into gospel music
KeltyBroadstone : check it out...especially J.Piper on suffer...dude it aint gospel...i aint into no gospel...this is the beats from places like this...seriously check it out...you aint nvr hrd this b4
BlackFaith : ok
KeltyBroadstone : they got m.king jr with a beat underneath "i got a dream..."
BlackFaith : its interesting
KeltyBroadstone : are you listening now?
BlackFaith : yeah
BlackFaith : im listening to the one called king
BlackFaith : its wierd cuz you got these gangster a** beats and then you have preaching on top of it
KeltyBroadstone : yeah, i love it man...
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : you got to be feeling that!
KeltyBroadstone : go to vol.1 and listen to the Ravi on Truth...that'll blow your mind
BlackFaith : its not on my favorites list...but its interesting...
BlackFaith : idk...i think its funny
KeltyBroadstone : what's funny about it?
BlackFaith : idk its just so wierd to me that its funny
KeltyBroadstone : does it feel wrong to have beats like that with preaching?
BlackFaith : idk kinda...you should have like...RnB ish music...light beats...i mean these are gangta a** beats and u got preaching on top of it...usually they dont mix
BlackFaith : although part of the funny thing is is that i know all of the beats by shadowville
KeltyBroadstone : there is a deep serious inthe gangsta sound...like you better listen to me...and the preaching on top of this beat is saying the same thing
BlackFaith : idk i still think its wierd
BlackFaith : but diff people have diff tastes
Enzo : yeah i just read all of that
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : never heard of it, but it doesn't sound appealing to me
KeltyBroadstone : that's why i like it...that haunting dark sound is God knocking at your door saying turn from sin, wake up, God is real and there will be a real judgment...so maybe it'll get inside your head and start rattling around
Enzo : but
Enzo : with a message that serious
Enzo : it shouldn't require music behind it to keep the the person listening
Enzo : i dunno, just sounds strange to me
BlackFaith : true
Enzo : if people really believe in their religion, then it shouldn't require "antics" to keep it interesting
KeltyBroadstone : God gave us gifts and talents...why not use it with his message?
BlackFaith : wut would really catch someones attention...idk if it would be in a good way or bad...would be if you had a preacher pull a lil jon
Enzo : i just don't think putting someone's sermon over a beat does anything
KeltyBroadstone : MC hammer tried that and came off real bad
Enzo : if a preacher is a good speaker, he knows how to keep the audiences attention
Enzo : he knows how to keep the listener interested, and makes the listener want to stay there to find out more
KeltyBroadstone : the preachers are not having this done...this is independent of them
Enzo : and he can do all of that w/out any music whatsoever
Enzo : i know
Enzo : because they don't need it
Enzo : i don't know, it just sounds weird to me
BlackFaith : i agree with Enzo
Enzo : i just don't understand mixing "gangster" beats with a sermon
Enzo : it's kinda like christian heavy metal
Enzo : it just doesn't make sense
KeltyBroadstone : I hear you on this...I like the preachers with and without the music...I think if
BlackFaith : lol i think they have that somewhere on soundclick
Enzo : just sounds like somebody is real bored when they start putting sermons on beats
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : and i'm not hating on religion
KeltyBroadstone : are you guys responding as christians concerned with the purity of the gospel message...or does this just sound like christians trying to be hard
Enzo : no
Enzo : it just sounds like a waste of time
Enzo : and just strange, to mix that w/ a beat
BlackFaith : especially that type of beat
Enzo : yeah
Enzo : maybe a slow r&b song or just some nice piano
KeltyBroadstone : that might just be your connotation...gangst a and jesus? sounds strange...I don't usually listen to any gangsta rap but the music "felt" serious and fit the seriuosness of the message
BlackFaith : wut does connotation mean?
Enzo : connotation
Enzo : is like
KeltyBroadstone : funny you say that b/c a lot of thse beats have piano
Enzo : the way you view it
KeltyBroadstone : connotation means certain words bring out certains feelings or as enzo said, ways of seeng things
BlackFaith : i think he meant just plain piano
KeltyBroadstone : ok, well now you are just expressing your preference...that's cool...my concern ultimately is the message...if you don't like the music withit then that's cool
BlackFaith : its not that we dont like the music...we just dont think they mix very well
KeltyBroadstone : I'm probably able to enjoy the beats and the message b/c i don't have enough experience/knowledge of the gangsta background to the beats...so i get to hear the music w/out tripping over the 'connotation" of gangsta and God which is right in the sense of most gangsta is sex/drugs/violence all of which God will judge...so I think maybe i hear you on this
Enzo : yeah i just don't see it mixing well
KeltyBroadstone : my wife got mad at me today b/c i was grooving with the music with the preacing on top and she said i shouldn't be groovin like that to a sermon that maybe it was disrespectful to the preacher and to God...what do you think?
BlackFaith : i dont think preachings are groove-to-able
KeltyBroadstone : I think there are lot of Christians who really love Jesus and just want to be able to express it musically without losing the truth and demand of the Gospel
BlackFaith : i think every group of people have their ways of expressing their love to Jesus but when they mix it just doesnt workout so well
KeltyBroadstone : i think that is sad to say that
BlackFaith : why is that?
Enzo : i'm done w/ this topic
Enzo : this is just pointless
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : God reigns over all the people of all the earth...why should we be so biased to our own culture
Enzo : everyone has their own opinion
Enzo : all i was trying to say
Enzo : was that i find it strange that people mix sermons and rap beats
Enzo : that's all
Enzo : and i think most people would agree, because that's not exactly somethin you hear everyday
BlackFaith : i agree with enzo again lol
KeltyBroadstone : ok, i heard that...not a pointless topic...especially since the message matters so much...God/humanity/ sin/cross/grace/judg ement
KeltyBroadstone : but, yeah, i'm sure it sounds strange to some
BlackFaith : most
KeltyBroadstone : ok, most...either way you guys have to deal with the message...you exist..have a sense of sin in your own hearts...and need for forgiveness...and purpose and hope inlife...so, forget the music, God is still speaking
BlackFaith : ok well ill bbl i gotta go call my gf
KeltyBroadstone : this is an easy conversation until you start talking Jesus and sin and the need for repentance and salvation...i care most about that...thanks for the conversation I got to go too...grace and peace to you both...KELLY BRIDENSTINE
So, that was it. I am not completely happy with all of my responses and questions...but that is real time. Some of the dialogue might seem a bit jumbled but we were all feeding into the same thing at the same time.
Several things stick out. First, they did not like Jesus or preaching mixed with gangsta beats. That just felt wrong and did not make sense. Second, they did not want to talk about the message but rather that the Message has no place on their instrumental beat turf and I would challenge that. Third, it seemed like a genuine conversation. Fourth, they did not have patience or interest in getting to the message of the Gospel.
I landed pretty hard in the last line...no one responded after I made that comment. I checked back awhle ago and found that BlackFaith was still on line and had left a few words to another guy, but I left him alone.
Well, pray for these two guys. My sense is that the do not know Jesus as Lord. Perhaps they'll listen to a few more sermons witthe beats underneath and the Lord might be pleased to rescue them.
OR, maybe they'll hear a sermon with no music and God will open their eyes. I had actually thought of burning some of the sermonjams to disc for a few of my coworkers and get their response and hope the Gospel would get to them. My dialogue tonight makes me think otherwise or at least a bit more cautiously.
This is interesting and distressing as I consider and have considered very recently what is involved in being "relevant." I mean, my goodness, the website that has the beats is called "Relevant Revolution." And then, perhaps most ironically, the website has a resource section which promotes mainly John Piper material. Ironic to that is the upcoming DG conference (i want to go if someone will pay my way...but i'm not begging) in which the topic will have to do with Above All Earthly Powers: The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World.
Writing in his invitation to the conference Piper describes this years theme as coming from David Wells book, Above All Earthly Powers. He expresses some of his concern and writes,
"The burden of Wells’ book is first to understand the postmodern world, and then to confront that world with the never-changing Christ. His thesis is that the West today is not simply a product of Enlightenment ideology, with its rejection of authority and reliance on reason without revelation, but is also the product of a process of consumeristic, technological, media-driven modernization that created an experience of reality which affirms and reinforces that ideology.
One effect of this modernization has been to give rise to the centrality of the psychologically oriented self in the place of a morally oriented human nature. The postmodern, all-consuming "self"—with its self-made spirituality—is subject to no outside authority. All reality has contracted into this self. It is radically individualized and privatized and insistently therapeutic. It does not feel at home in the doctrines and traditions of religion. It is on an endless quest for the enhancement of its experience measured by itself alone. "All of this has produced soil throughout society that positively invites the new spirituality. It seems normal and natural. That is why it is as difficult for the church to contest today as was Gnosticism in the early centuries" (p. 138)."
Now, I tend towards being critical and worried by the emergent church trends and the silliness of a lot of mimicing the culture. I blasted recently on the Provocations and Pantings website about this. And I think I found my criticism validated in both BlackFaith and Enzo's comments...especially Enzo's comment of the absurdity of Christian Metal...and I feel that way too...but, then I wonder about my enjoyment and, can i say it, edification with some of these sermon/songs.
Interestingly enough though, I still really enjoy hearing Ravi and Piper in this way. Does it translate to the culture and thus share the gospel? Well, in one sense it is absolutely orthodox. I can think of no other Pastor/Preacher/Speaker than Ravi and Piper in this regard. Mainly because they are so precise and devastatingly clear in engaging the culture and sharing powerfully the message of Jesus Christ. There are other speakers on this sermonjams that I am not that crazy about especially Tony Evans "Life" over the beat...he talks about Frankenstein with a beat that is a bit laughable.
This is from the founder of SermonJams, John Mahshie,
"John Mahshie is the founder of Relevant Revolution and Sermon Jams. He began Sermon Jams and Relevant Revolution with the goal of promoting a reverence and passion for the supremacy of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. He has a passion for the current generation and believes that today is a good day to start a revolution for Christ.
We have many ideas on how these sites can be used to glorify the Lord and believe they have tremendous potential to spread gospel seeds. Sermon Jams is a Sermon/Hip-hop hybrid designed to create a medium that is biblical, tactful and relevant to our current culture. We do not take a particular position on non-essential peripheral issues such as the apostolic gifts, eschatology or adult baptism. Our focus is on the fundamental truths of the Christian faith and the Word of God. This ministry emphasizes unity on the essentials, liberty on the non-essentials and charity in everything. We believe strongly on the idea that unity does not equal uniformity because there is diversity in the Kingdom of Christ."
Anyway, I thank the Lord for the conversation tonight.
Grace and Peace,
Kelly
Saturday, July 08, 2006
Conversations for Conversions Sake 2
Back in the 80's I met a man named M.A. Thomas. He gave me a book about himself called, "M.A. Thomas A Man With A Heart As Big India." I was just a young teen. He preached quite mightily and passionately. He spoke of persecution. He spoke of his love for Jesus.
I read today about his son, Dr. Samuel Thomas, who "According to Hopegivers International,...was arrested March 16, 2006, in New Delhi, by about a dozen men claiming to be police officers from the provincial capital of Kota, Rajasthan. Hopegivers International was formed in the United States by friends wanting to support the many orphanages and schools founded by Dr. Thomas’ father M. A. Thomas as he began ministering to children in India. Local anti-Christian hate groups continue their siege against the 2,500 orphans and abandoned children protected at the Emmanual Hope Home in Kota, Rajasthan, by threatening to disrupt water and electric service to the facilities. Bishop M. A. Thomas is currently in hiding from the Hindu extremist groups that have offered large rewards for the capture and beheading of Dr. Samuel Thomas or his father M.A. Thomas. "
I read that and realize that the very light frustrations I have sharing the gospel are nothing compared to many trials of my brothers and sisters in other lands. I also think about the reactions of those I have been sharing the gospel with. God has been pleased to open dozens of conversations in the last few weeks of working at UPS. I listed descriptions in the last posts. What I have not talked about is the tension my conversations are creating. I have had varying feelings about this. I have thought how easy it would be "to just get along" and not say anything about Jesus. I had one young man literally sneering at me and cussing as I told him that Jesus was the only way to God the Father. He shouted that he didn't need a mediator and I was wrong about this. I gave him Pascal's wager and said, "Well, if I am wrong I don't lose anything. If you are wrong you lose everything." He responded, "Lose what?! You don't know what I'll lose. You've not died before. Have you died and know for sure what's happens?! You don't know anything!" He blasphemed the Lord, but I said to those who were listening, "You ought to be careful, we're going to be judged for everything we've said in this van tonight. Me and you, each one of us. Some to torment, some to life." He laughed and said, "No, I think God thinks what I said was funny!" He then held his hands like a phone, as thought speaking with God, and said, "Yeah, that was funny wasn't it!"
And my heart breaks for him. He simply doesn't get it. I have spoken to others who say his reaction is one of inner conviction. That is, the reason he reacts to vehemently is because he is under conviction from the Holy Spirit. That may be so, but he resists and blasphemes. God open his eyes.
Another woman on the van said that I was wrong about the New Testament and that after a lot of study she has concluded that the Bible, especially the New Testament is completely unreliable. She mentioned all of the books that were left out and how distorted and questionable that history is. I explained to her that by 100 AD the New Testament was basically complete. And thus, the councils which canonized the books were not doing so arbitrarily but rather simply codifying what was already seen as divinely inspired writings. I told her that there were over 5000 greek manuscripts and some of the fragments we have are dated within 200 years of the originals. Her response to these things was to get very angry and said, "Kelly, I don't care. You're not going to change my mind on this. I don't believe what you are saying. I don't want to argue about this. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe." I tried to say as delicately as I could, so as not to rouse her more, "You made the statement that you had studied. You said that the documents are unreliable. I'm simply trying to demonstrate that the writings are reliable." She shook her head and walked off the van.
Is this persecution? No way. This is Mars Hill and the Athenians are sneering. That is all. Nonetheless, it is vexing.
The next day I was sitting in the waiting area of an office reading Calvin on these things. Here is what he said,
"For my part, although I do not excel either in great dexterity or eloquence, if I were struggling against the most crafty sort of despisers of God, who seek to appear shrewd and witty in disparaging Scripture, I am confident it would not be difficult for me to silence their clamorous voices. And if it were a useful labor to refute their cavils, I would with no great trouble shatter the boasts they mutter in their lurking places. But even if anyone clears God's Sacred Word from man's evil speaking, he will not at once imprint upon their hearts that certainty which piety requires. Since for unbelieving men religion seems to stand by opinion alone they in order not to believe anything foolishly or lightly, both wish and demand rational proof that Moses and the prophets spoke divinely. But I reply: the testimony of the Spirit is more excellent than all reason. For as God alone is a fit witness of himself in his Word, so also the Word will not find acceptance in men's hearts before it is sealed by the inward testimony of the Spirit. The same Spirit, therefore, who has spoken through the mouths of the prophets must penetrate into our hearts to persuade us that they faithfully proclaimed what had been divinely commanded." Calvin, Institutes vol.1 VII. 4
So again, I ask you, please pray for the conversations I have been having at UPS. I am not the only one having these conversations. My blogger friend Timmy works at UPS as well in another area. He has mentioned many fruitful conversations he has had as well. So I am not alone and God is working here and all over the world. In fact my brother Lee, has been out west sharing and living the gospel among the lost and needy there at the Yakama reservation.
Are you sharing the gospel at your workplace? Are you afraid of losing your job? Are you worried of losing credibility or your coworkers sneering at you? Are you afraid of being labled a "Jesus Freak" or a "Funamentalist Wacko"? Do others at work even know you are a Believer? Would others know to come to you if they wanted to know how to be saved?
I had a conversation with a friend who mentioned a certain lack of vitality in his knowledge of Christ. I said, "Put yourself out there where you have to risk something. Make yourself do those things which require faith and trust." I mentioned to him 2 Cor 3 and told him, "Man, I am not adequate for these things. I have to trust that God is the one who will open their eyes. He calls me to open my mouth. But it is scarey because I don't know what people are going to say, but I know it is Him who does it." I was overcome with joy for all of the conversations I have had lately, to be able to share the Gospel...and to be sneered at! God appointed for me to be sneered at and laughed at! And again I felt the confirmation of the Lord, He has made me to proclaim with joyful, loving intensity that Jesus Christ is Lord!
Maranatha!
Kelly
I read today about his son, Dr. Samuel Thomas, who "According to Hopegivers International,...was arrested March 16, 2006, in New Delhi, by about a dozen men claiming to be police officers from the provincial capital of Kota, Rajasthan. Hopegivers International was formed in the United States by friends wanting to support the many orphanages and schools founded by Dr. Thomas’ father M. A. Thomas as he began ministering to children in India. Local anti-Christian hate groups continue their siege against the 2,500 orphans and abandoned children protected at the Emmanual Hope Home in Kota, Rajasthan, by threatening to disrupt water and electric service to the facilities. Bishop M. A. Thomas is currently in hiding from the Hindu extremist groups that have offered large rewards for the capture and beheading of Dr. Samuel Thomas or his father M.A. Thomas. "
I read that and realize that the very light frustrations I have sharing the gospel are nothing compared to many trials of my brothers and sisters in other lands. I also think about the reactions of those I have been sharing the gospel with. God has been pleased to open dozens of conversations in the last few weeks of working at UPS. I listed descriptions in the last posts. What I have not talked about is the tension my conversations are creating. I have had varying feelings about this. I have thought how easy it would be "to just get along" and not say anything about Jesus. I had one young man literally sneering at me and cussing as I told him that Jesus was the only way to God the Father. He shouted that he didn't need a mediator and I was wrong about this. I gave him Pascal's wager and said, "Well, if I am wrong I don't lose anything. If you are wrong you lose everything." He responded, "Lose what?! You don't know what I'll lose. You've not died before. Have you died and know for sure what's happens?! You don't know anything!" He blasphemed the Lord, but I said to those who were listening, "You ought to be careful, we're going to be judged for everything we've said in this van tonight. Me and you, each one of us. Some to torment, some to life." He laughed and said, "No, I think God thinks what I said was funny!" He then held his hands like a phone, as thought speaking with God, and said, "Yeah, that was funny wasn't it!"
And my heart breaks for him. He simply doesn't get it. I have spoken to others who say his reaction is one of inner conviction. That is, the reason he reacts to vehemently is because he is under conviction from the Holy Spirit. That may be so, but he resists and blasphemes. God open his eyes.
Another woman on the van said that I was wrong about the New Testament and that after a lot of study she has concluded that the Bible, especially the New Testament is completely unreliable. She mentioned all of the books that were left out and how distorted and questionable that history is. I explained to her that by 100 AD the New Testament was basically complete. And thus, the councils which canonized the books were not doing so arbitrarily but rather simply codifying what was already seen as divinely inspired writings. I told her that there were over 5000 greek manuscripts and some of the fragments we have are dated within 200 years of the originals. Her response to these things was to get very angry and said, "Kelly, I don't care. You're not going to change my mind on this. I don't believe what you are saying. I don't want to argue about this. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe." I tried to say as delicately as I could, so as not to rouse her more, "You made the statement that you had studied. You said that the documents are unreliable. I'm simply trying to demonstrate that the writings are reliable." She shook her head and walked off the van.
Is this persecution? No way. This is Mars Hill and the Athenians are sneering. That is all. Nonetheless, it is vexing.
The next day I was sitting in the waiting area of an office reading Calvin on these things. Here is what he said,
"For my part, although I do not excel either in great dexterity or eloquence, if I were struggling against the most crafty sort of despisers of God, who seek to appear shrewd and witty in disparaging Scripture, I am confident it would not be difficult for me to silence their clamorous voices. And if it were a useful labor to refute their cavils, I would with no great trouble shatter the boasts they mutter in their lurking places. But even if anyone clears God's Sacred Word from man's evil speaking, he will not at once imprint upon their hearts that certainty which piety requires. Since for unbelieving men religion seems to stand by opinion alone they in order not to believe anything foolishly or lightly, both wish and demand rational proof that Moses and the prophets spoke divinely. But I reply: the testimony of the Spirit is more excellent than all reason. For as God alone is a fit witness of himself in his Word, so also the Word will not find acceptance in men's hearts before it is sealed by the inward testimony of the Spirit. The same Spirit, therefore, who has spoken through the mouths of the prophets must penetrate into our hearts to persuade us that they faithfully proclaimed what had been divinely commanded." Calvin, Institutes vol.1 VII. 4
So again, I ask you, please pray for the conversations I have been having at UPS. I am not the only one having these conversations. My blogger friend Timmy works at UPS as well in another area. He has mentioned many fruitful conversations he has had as well. So I am not alone and God is working here and all over the world. In fact my brother Lee, has been out west sharing and living the gospel among the lost and needy there at the Yakama reservation.
Are you sharing the gospel at your workplace? Are you afraid of losing your job? Are you worried of losing credibility or your coworkers sneering at you? Are you afraid of being labled a "Jesus Freak" or a "Funamentalist Wacko"? Do others at work even know you are a Believer? Would others know to come to you if they wanted to know how to be saved?
I had a conversation with a friend who mentioned a certain lack of vitality in his knowledge of Christ. I said, "Put yourself out there where you have to risk something. Make yourself do those things which require faith and trust." I mentioned to him 2 Cor 3 and told him, "Man, I am not adequate for these things. I have to trust that God is the one who will open their eyes. He calls me to open my mouth. But it is scarey because I don't know what people are going to say, but I know it is Him who does it." I was overcome with joy for all of the conversations I have had lately, to be able to share the Gospel...and to be sneered at! God appointed for me to be sneered at and laughed at! And again I felt the confirmation of the Lord, He has made me to proclaim with joyful, loving intensity that Jesus Christ is Lord!
Maranatha!
Kelly
Saturday, July 01, 2006
Conversations for Conversion Sake, An Ongoing Series That Will Chronicle My Experiences in Sharing the Gospel
Conversations for Conversion Sake, An Ongoing Series That Will Chronicle My Experiences in Sharing the Gospel
Let me give some context. I work on a 3rd shift crew of eight other people. We drive around an airport ramp loading planes all night. It is actually a very fun job. Quick sprints between planes, loading "cans", driving belt loaders, pulling dollies with tugs. Wearing flourescent yellow smocks that have reflective stripes. As a crew we ride around in an old UPS delivery truck which has been gutted and now has van seats bolted to the floor against the side of one wall. The other side of the truck has two shelves. These are convenient and lengthy enough to hold four resting bodies. So...we spend lots of time in the truck...hurrying up to wait. This affords lots of time for conversation.
I will begin posting parts of conversations which tend toward God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I need prayers. You may or may not know me. Regardless, pray for me. I am saying to anyone who reads this, "Pray for me." Beyond and in addition to that leave comments to help me think through the conversations. That is, if you think I blew it, then tell me. If I "accidentally" said something brilliant, then give God the glory and let me know about it. If you have advice on what could have been said, or might be said in future conversation then by all means chime in.
I wonder if we did this sort of thing on Wednesday or Sunday nights if it wouldn't lead to more fruitful conversations and conversions. What would happen if on Wed night the goal was to walk through and talk through the witnessing we'd done through the week and began praying and strategising through how to continue in the next opportunity? What kind of learning and inspiration would churches begin to experience in "evangelism" if we simply started these kinds of bull sessions, brainstorming sessions, critical assessment sessions?
My goals in this ongoing series is to get prayers for them and for me. My other goal is to encourage you to be bold in your witness. The world forces its way very boldly on us and them. Why not respond with even more boldness for Christ. I am already a "Jesus Freak" to my crew. Others might argue for some milder form of "friendship evangelism" to which I would reply, "This is friendship evangelism!! I love them and they know it! I am honest. To the point. There is no second guessing whether I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I smell like death to most of them but I smell like Life to others!"
A conversation with the black man, I was talking to the young Christian about what I taught in the abstinence classes...the infamous 4 questions,1- Why do you and everything else exist? 2-What does it mean to be human? 3-Why is there Good and Evil? 4-How do you know your answers to these questions are True? I was telling young Christian that I wanted to tack on some others questions which include, 5-Why do we demand and hope for Justice? 6-What is with this deep longing for happiness? 7-What/Why is guilt? The black man at this point asked, "Have you been reading Plato?" I was pretty suprised by the question and said,"No, but why do you ask?" He said, "That sounds like what he talked about. Especially, the what is happiness question. That sounds just like him." I nodded. He asked, "Do you like Plato? Have you read him?" I said, "Yes, I enjoyed reading Plato, that is I enjoyed the dialogues with Socrates. Socrates is a lot of fun. He asks good and hard questions." He nodded but I could tell that he hadn't ever read Plato but had obviously heard about or been taught some sort of overview of Plato. So, I went on to say, "You know what interesting is that the manuscripts we have of Plato's Socratic Dialogues are miniscule compared to the New Testament." He looked interested so I went on, "Yeah, most people have no problem accepting that both Plato and Socrates both existed and what they said is contained in the writings. But, people flip out as to whether Jesus ever existed or whether He really said what the Bible says He said. There are over 5000 manuscripts which are amazingly consistent and only differing in relation to use of some words. There is not a single doctrine or truth which is called into question with any one of these differences."
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
