Now, this is a site which features really strong rap beats with haunting pianos, strings and synth sounds underneath even better preaching...like John Piper and Ravi Zacharias and many others.
The most ironic thing about all of my interest is that one day I opened a web site that had the most beautiful piano loop I'd ever heard. Prior to opening that site with the piano loop I had started a sermon by John Piper from another web site biblicalpreaching.info. Well the two together was amazing. I mean it felt very right. There were times when the music seemed to follow the intensity of the preaching and seemed that the tempo of Piper's preaching matched the music. It was a very moving effect.
So, when I found this link I couldn't believe that people had even thought to put music and preaching together intentionally. Mine experience was very unintentional at least from my point of view.
Well, I go to the web site and they have a chat screen you can interact with while listening to the music. One of the chatters was a person who goes by the name BlackFaith. I thought, "Hmmm, maybe there is something religious to this...Here is the result of my inquiry:
BlackFaith : anyone here?
KeltyBroadstone : blackfaith?
KeltyBroadstone : Is that a religious thing?
BlackFaith : no
KeltyBroadstone : mean anything?
BlackFaith : Black Faith is the name of one of my beats and it sounded good with productions at the end so i was like hey why not
BlackFaith : wut about you? you make music?
KeltyBroadstone : no, i preach...so maybe in a different way
BlackFaith : oh i see
KeltyBroadstone : there is a thing called sermonjams, messages/spokenWORD put to beats...it's a trip...relevantrevol ution.com...
BlackFaith : im not into gospel music
KeltyBroadstone : check it out...especially J.Piper on suffer...dude it aint gospel...i aint into no gospel...this is the beats from places like this...seriously check it out...you aint nvr hrd this b4
BlackFaith : ok
KeltyBroadstone : they got m.king jr with a beat underneath "i got a dream..."
BlackFaith : its interesting
KeltyBroadstone : are you listening now?
BlackFaith : yeah
BlackFaith : im listening to the one called king
BlackFaith : its wierd cuz you got these gangster a** beats and then you have preaching on top of it
KeltyBroadstone : yeah, i love it man...
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : you got to be feeling that!
KeltyBroadstone : go to vol.1 and listen to the Ravi on Truth...that'll blow your mind
BlackFaith : its not on my favorites list...but its interesting...
BlackFaith : idk...i think its funny
KeltyBroadstone : what's funny about it?
BlackFaith : idk its just so wierd to me that its funny
KeltyBroadstone : does it feel wrong to have beats like that with preaching?
BlackFaith : idk kinda...you should have like...RnB ish music...light beats...i mean these are gangta a** beats and u got preaching on top of it...usually they dont mix
BlackFaith : although part of the funny thing is is that i know all of the beats by shadowville
KeltyBroadstone : there is a deep serious inthe gangsta sound...like you better listen to me...and the preaching on top of this beat is saying the same thing
BlackFaith : idk i still think its wierd
BlackFaith : but diff people have diff tastes
Enzo : yeah i just read all of that
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : never heard of it, but it doesn't sound appealing to me
KeltyBroadstone : that's why i like it...that haunting dark sound is God knocking at your door saying turn from sin, wake up, God is real and there will be a real judgment...so maybe it'll get inside your head and start rattling around
Enzo : but
Enzo : with a message that serious
Enzo : it shouldn't require music behind it to keep the the person listening
Enzo : i dunno, just sounds strange to me
BlackFaith : true
Enzo : if people really believe in their religion, then it shouldn't require "antics" to keep it interesting
KeltyBroadstone : God gave us gifts and talents...why not use it with his message?
BlackFaith : wut would really catch someones attention...idk if it would be in a good way or bad...would be if you had a preacher pull a lil jon
Enzo : i just don't think putting someone's sermon over a beat does anything
KeltyBroadstone : MC hammer tried that and came off real bad
Enzo : if a preacher is a good speaker, he knows how to keep the audiences attention
Enzo : he knows how to keep the listener interested, and makes the listener want to stay there to find out more
KeltyBroadstone : the preachers are not having this done...this is independent of them
Enzo : and he can do all of that w/out any music whatsoever
Enzo : i know
Enzo : because they don't need it
Enzo : i don't know, it just sounds weird to me
BlackFaith : i agree with Enzo
Enzo : i just don't understand mixing "gangster" beats with a sermon
Enzo : it's kinda like christian heavy metal
Enzo : it just doesn't make sense
KeltyBroadstone : I hear you on this...I like the preachers with and without the music...I think if
BlackFaith : lol i think they have that somewhere on soundclick
Enzo : just sounds like somebody is real bored when they start putting sermons on beats
BlackFaith : lol
Enzo : and i'm not hating on religion
KeltyBroadstone : are you guys responding as christians concerned with the purity of the gospel message...or does this just sound like christians trying to be hard
Enzo : no
Enzo : it just sounds like a waste of time
Enzo : and just strange, to mix that w/ a beat
BlackFaith : especially that type of beat
Enzo : yeah
Enzo : maybe a slow r&b song or just some nice piano
KeltyBroadstone : that might just be your connotation...gangst a and jesus? sounds strange...I don't usually listen to any gangsta rap but the music "felt" serious and fit the seriuosness of the message
BlackFaith : wut does connotation mean?
Enzo : connotation
Enzo : is like
KeltyBroadstone : funny you say that b/c a lot of thse beats have piano
Enzo : the way you view it
KeltyBroadstone : connotation means certain words bring out certains feelings or as enzo said, ways of seeng things
BlackFaith : i think he meant just plain piano
KeltyBroadstone : ok, well now you are just expressing your preference...that's cool...my concern ultimately is the message...if you don't like the music withit then that's cool
BlackFaith : its not that we dont like the music...we just dont think they mix very well
KeltyBroadstone : I'm probably able to enjoy the beats and the message b/c i don't have enough experience/knowledge of the gangsta background to the beats...so i get to hear the music w/out tripping over the 'connotation" of gangsta and God which is right in the sense of most gangsta is sex/drugs/violence all of which God will judge...so I think maybe i hear you on this
Enzo : yeah i just don't see it mixing well
KeltyBroadstone : my wife got mad at me today b/c i was grooving with the music with the preacing on top and she said i shouldn't be groovin like that to a sermon that maybe it was disrespectful to the preacher and to God...what do you think?
BlackFaith : i dont think preachings are groove-to-able
KeltyBroadstone : I think there are lot of Christians who really love Jesus and just want to be able to express it musically without losing the truth and demand of the Gospel
BlackFaith : i think every group of people have their ways of expressing their love to Jesus but when they mix it just doesnt workout so well
KeltyBroadstone : i think that is sad to say that
BlackFaith : why is that?
Enzo : i'm done w/ this topic
Enzo : this is just pointless
BlackFaith : lol
KeltyBroadstone : God reigns over all the people of all the earth...why should we be so biased to our own culture
Enzo : everyone has their own opinion
Enzo : all i was trying to say
Enzo : was that i find it strange that people mix sermons and rap beats
Enzo : that's all
Enzo : and i think most people would agree, because that's not exactly somethin you hear everyday
BlackFaith : i agree with enzo again lol
KeltyBroadstone : ok, i heard that...not a pointless topic...especially since the message matters so much...God/humanity/ sin/cross/grace/judg ement
KeltyBroadstone : but, yeah, i'm sure it sounds strange to some
BlackFaith : most
KeltyBroadstone : ok, most...either way you guys have to deal with the message...you exist..have a sense of sin in your own hearts...and need for forgiveness...and purpose and hope inlife...so, forget the music, God is still speaking
BlackFaith : ok well ill bbl i gotta go call my gf
KeltyBroadstone : this is an easy conversation until you start talking Jesus and sin and the need for repentance and salvation...i care most about that...thanks for the conversation I got to go too...grace and peace to you both...KELLY BRIDENSTINE
So, that was it. I am not completely happy with all of my responses and questions...but that is real time. Some of the dialogue might seem a bit jumbled but we were all feeding into the same thing at the same time.
Several things stick out. First, they did not like Jesus or preaching mixed with gangsta beats. That just felt wrong and did not make sense. Second, they did not want to talk about the message but rather that the Message has no place on their instrumental beat turf and I would challenge that. Third, it seemed like a genuine conversation. Fourth, they did not have patience or interest in getting to the message of the Gospel.
I landed pretty hard in the last line...no one responded after I made that comment. I checked back awhle ago and found that BlackFaith was still on line and had left a few words to another guy, but I left him alone.
Well, pray for these two guys. My sense is that the do not know Jesus as Lord. Perhaps they'll listen to a few more sermons witthe beats underneath and the Lord might be pleased to rescue them.
OR, maybe they'll hear a sermon with no music and God will open their eyes. I had actually thought of burning some of the sermonjams to disc for a few of my coworkers and get their response and hope the Gospel would get to them. My dialogue tonight makes me think otherwise or at least a bit more cautiously.
This is interesting and distressing as I consider and have considered very recently what is involved in being "relevant." I mean, my goodness, the website that has the beats is called "Relevant Revolution." And then, perhaps most ironically, the website has a resource section which promotes mainly John Piper material. Ironic to that is the upcoming DG conference (i want to go if someone will pay my way...but i'm not begging) in which the topic will have to do with Above All Earthly Powers: The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World.
Writing in his invitation to the conference Piper describes this years theme as coming from David Wells book, Above All Earthly Powers. He expresses some of his concern and writes,
"The burden of Wells’ book is first to understand the postmodern world, and then to confront that world with the never-changing Christ. His thesis is that the West today is not simply a product of Enlightenment ideology, with its rejection of authority and reliance on reason without revelation, but is also the product of a process of consumeristic, technological, media-driven modernization that created an experience of reality which affirms and reinforces that ideology.
One effect of this modernization has been to give rise to the centrality of the psychologically oriented self in the place of a morally oriented human nature. The postmodern, all-consuming "self"—with its self-made spirituality—is subject to no outside authority. All reality has contracted into this self. It is radically individualized and privatized and insistently therapeutic. It does not feel at home in the doctrines and traditions of religion. It is on an endless quest for the enhancement of its experience measured by itself alone. "All of this has produced soil throughout society that positively invites the new spirituality. It seems normal and natural. That is why it is as difficult for the church to contest today as was Gnosticism in the early centuries" (p. 138)."
Now, I tend towards being critical and worried by the emergent church trends and the silliness of a lot of mimicing the culture. I blasted recently on the Provocations and Pantings website about this. And I think I found my criticism validated in both BlackFaith and Enzo's comments...especially Enzo's comment of the absurdity of Christian Metal...and I feel that way too...but, then I wonder about my enjoyment and, can i say it, edification with some of these sermon/songs.
Interestingly enough though, I still really enjoy hearing Ravi and Piper in this way. Does it translate to the culture and thus share the gospel? Well, in one sense it is absolutely orthodox. I can think of no other Pastor/Preacher/Speaker than Ravi and Piper in this regard. Mainly because they are so precise and devastatingly clear in engaging the culture and sharing powerfully the message of Jesus Christ. There are other speakers on this sermonjams that I am not that crazy about especially Tony Evans "Life" over the beat...he talks about Frankenstein with a beat that is a bit laughable.
This is from the founder of SermonJams, John Mahshie,
"John Mahshie is the founder of Relevant Revolution and Sermon Jams. He began Sermon Jams and Relevant Revolution with the goal of promoting a reverence and passion for the supremacy of Jesus Christ and his Kingdom. He has a passion for the current generation and believes that today is a good day to start a revolution for Christ.
We have many ideas on how these sites can be used to glorify the Lord and believe they have tremendous potential to spread gospel seeds. Sermon Jams is a Sermon/Hip-hop hybrid designed to create a medium that is biblical, tactful and relevant to our current culture. We do not take a particular position on non-essential peripheral issues such as the apostolic gifts, eschatology or adult baptism. Our focus is on the fundamental truths of the Christian faith and the Word of God. This ministry emphasizes unity on the essentials, liberty on the non-essentials and charity in everything. We believe strongly on the idea that unity does not equal uniformity because there is diversity in the Kingdom of Christ."
Anyway, I thank the Lord for the conversation tonight.
Grace and Peace,
Kelly
